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You Mean....Metal Gear

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1 You Mean....Metal Gear on Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:39 pm

RadicalDreamers

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I was talking to Thelittlestbuddy the other day about MGS 2:Sons of Liberty. I think this is by far the weakest entry in the series. At the time, it looked amazing, and i won't take that away from it. i remember the previews for it, and how they listed that the ice cubes in the room would melt after you shot the drinking glass. i thought this attention to detail was awesome, but it gets weak in other areas of the game. i think the boss fights are the worst in the series, you don't even kill any of them until you get to solid snake, who ooooh happens to be a good guy. i also think the idea of throwing Raiden in there was stupid, but it didn't ruin the game for me like everyone else. i think it was ballsy on Kojima's part, but at the same time he was acting like a baby throwing a temper tantrum. "everyone wants me to make a game their way, but i wanna do it My way!" (throws toys and storms off.) it just seemed kind of dumb. it was the greatest prank in video game history though, they did a greeaaat job of keeping that a secret. it's still a solid game, i just don't think it holds up as well as the others. i'm curious what everyone thought about 2.

2 I'm always wary of that kind of thing on Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:12 pm

FalseAdvertisement

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whenever a game promotes really good ambiance, i know I'm gonna be disappointed with it. if you think about it that's just more man hours and development cash that they sink into a gimmick to rope people into buying it, but ends up just taking away time they could have spent in actual game play development. that's why i think that retro games hold up sooo well. because they weren't winning you over with bullshit, just pure entertainment. as time goes on I'm disappointed by more and more new titles

4 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:44 am

ThatFuckinGuy

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alrighty...right in my wheel house....

shall we-

right of the bat this game was unbelievably stunning graphically. Nothing was this jaw dropping excluding any thing square enix put out, bet they're a power house no one cna compete with. The gameplay was flawless for an mgs game. After playing the first mgs, this blew me away. The sneaking and tact you needed to get by on hard were incredibe.

The story opening with snake was good. The boat scene was a fun introduction that allowed the player to get accustomed..also when the GNU first boarded and started cutting throats shocked me a little bit as the graphics were unlike anything else and that brief visceral scene really jumped out at me. After fucking about and getting to the cargo hold, being greeted by the new metal gear was an awesome site. After slipping by everybody and taking pictures of the rex kojima treats the player with a cut scene. Im really not partial to cut scenes, but kojima is one of the greatest directors of cgi in the history of gaming. after this the ship is scuttled, and snake *dies*. It would have been absolutely ballsy if kojima killed him off right there but after seeing the series grow i would have hated having it any other way.

jump to raiden. Raiden blows right off the bat. Hes a pretty and palatable character with cool names like *raiden* (obviously) and *jack*. Both very easy to take in for a western audience. After fucking about and hating him for a while, you encounter vamp. besides raven, vamp is my number one bad guy. Hes so easy to hate right away, which makes him a weak character, but aftr seeing his story unfold, he takes the cake. Blah blah, fight vamp and then....PLISKEN! it was enough for me that they *borrowed* a character name from a john carpenter movie, but it was also a relief to have snake back. The reason i like this little device, is that you absolutely want to play as snake the whole game, no doubt about that, but instead you get this turd raiden. This is a great set-up for later. o and also snake gets fucked up by vamp which really draws on his human side.

blah blah....talk to rose..

I for one like the enemies in this game. A fat guy in a bomb suit on inline skates drinking wine? what in the fuck was kojima thinking. Thats the only one i really had to double take on. Now, i do realize that this is an odd character, but let me make a stand on why he is a great character. Kojima is obviously japanese...Fatman is the nuclear weapon america dropped on hiroshima (or nagisaki i cant remember). I really believe this was kojima taking a stab at americans by creating an extremely pale, ugly, fat, obnoxious creature who sips on wine and acts like a bourgeois cunt during a military over throw of a civilian rig.

Fourtune is blah...but i feel the same about most enemies in snake eater

lets not forget Mr. x (i really how this is a streets of rage 2 reference) who helps you along this whole time

blah blah moving along....and then..... A THIRD BROTHER! i fucking hated it when they did this in the game. solidus is an aweful character. This is my only big complaint...this seemed to me like something jk rowling would do...."O dont worry everything is ok"and then"omg harry you have another perosn who was invloved with killing your parents after you now...LOOK OUT!". I really wish they stuck with just the two snakes but whatever ill accept it. Also i liked his silly octopus armor....i dont know why but i like that sudo sci-fi military stuff, im a sucker for it.

blah blah save the president....emma emmerich...yada yada....(by the way, one of my favorite pieces of lore is that emma and otacons grandfather worked on the manhatten project). After some shit we come across Mr. X again...who turns out to be olga? this caught me off guard, you fight this bitch in the beginning and then it turns out she helped you for a while but that was all a ruse.....cunt

this is where i fell in love with raiden.....cause im a sucker. I hated this dick the whole time. He acts like apussy, is always scared and needs his girl with him the whole time, and then solidus drops the bomb on you. Raiden is a fucking murdering savage child soldier...*WHAT*...i loved that complete 180 in the story...rose talks about how you scream in your sleep and shes to scared top bring it up...i really liked that whole thing.

alright so after that nonsense you get to a part in the game that i still have inner conflict with. You fight to fend off a gazillion metal gears. I both absolutely hated this and loved this. During this fight one *PERSON* kills a bunch of METAL FUCKING GEARS THE MOST BAD ASS WEAPON EVER by himself..whatever maybe the gw virus tuned them down or something but i have to admit that part of the game was fun as hell.

after killing all the war machines with a slingshot another cinematic...now, since im a huge fan of the games that followed i have since fallen in love with what goes down next....ocelots arm takes over his body *THE FUCK?*...this ends up being tyed up in a nice way at the end of 4 so i really think this kojima cunt had this all in his head when he made the game and was pissed for good reason when people gave him shit about it at the time...Instead of waiting to see how things panned out and giving an obviously great game creater the benefit of the doubt...they knee jerked and gave him shit about how silly it was...him throwing a tantrum is obnoxious but a little bit in bounds as well


o yea the samurai showdown fuckin rules at the end of this game....i wanted to be the grey fox and play with swords for a long time and got to

5 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:29 pm

Raspar!

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I personally liked MGS2, it was fun to play, looked good and provided a lot of hours of gameplay. Now, not having really thought about the game in the context of comparing it to the others, I was planning on defending it, and to a degree, I will.

The game told a great story, Raiden was intended not to really be liked, because he's not Snake. He's the opposite of Snake, more effeminate, he’s “green” and not a pro like Snake. That is the point, Hideo gave you a character you would hate, so he could tell a story and make you like him. He really is a badass, and is tied into the whole “Snake” family. The other big thing to remember here, in regards to the MGS story is that in MGS2, everyone didn’t want to be Raiden and by the time MGS4 came out everyone was mad you COULDN’T be Raiden. Kojima did exactly what he had intended to do, give you something he knew you would hate, and make you love it.

Now, onto Solidus; While not my favorite Snake, we need to acknowledge that he wasn’t just a Deus ex Machina thrown in to provide more story, as it is mentioned in MSG1 that there was three brothers. And by knowing this, he set up the perfect next enemy for the next installment. 1

Next is the bosses, I disagree that they are the worst of the series, and the fact that you can't kill them adds suspense and makes the return of that villian more engaging. The fight with Fatman, and trying to find the bomb he is sitting on, (Who you kill if I am not mistaken as Raiden) my personal favorite, the fight with Fortune, where you literally can't shoot her, and even when you know this now, play it again and tell me you won't shoot at her anyway, just because it feels like you need to, you're helpless, but to hell if your not going to fight it (and the similarly with Vamp). Now, I personally think that the villians in MGS2 are the most believable. They explain all of the reasons for the superhuman powers that the Dead Cell (also, Dead Cell is by far the coolest group name in the MGS series) members have. Unlike MGS3 and MGS1 in which some people are just magic.

That said, don't get me wrong, I like Psycho Mantis just being psychic as well as the other powers of those in MGS3. But in comparison, we have a man who communicate with the dead, a russian general who constantly has 10 million volts running through him and a super bee tamer. In comparison, MGS2 has the most reasonable characters. And their lack of magical powers (spoilers, its electromagnetism and nanomachines)2,3 makes their realization of this (specifically Fortune stopping MG Ray's missile.) that much more powerful.

MGS2 is by no means perfect, nor my favorite. The story gets convoluted FAST and the relationship between the La le lou le lo, the Patriots and so on takes sparknotes, a whiteboard and a few days to really digest. Also, the overly powerful symbolism, (the fight on top of the Federal building specifically) gets a little to hard to swallow, as well as it being, in my opinion, the "talkiest" of the MGS games (forgiving MGS4 due to the fact it had a lot of loose ends to tie up and for MGS stories, that takes awhile)


1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_the_Metal_Gear_series#Solidus_Snake

2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_the_Metal_Gear_series#Fortune

3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_the_Metal_Gear_series#Vamp

http://hadokant.forumotion.com

6 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:13 pm

RadicalDreamers

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my favorite part about Vamp - my family was killed, i drank the blood of them to live, and i'm immortal, but.....they call me Vamp because i'm gay. wtf?

7 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:23 pm

RadicalDreamers

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i do like vamp as a character, and love fortune as well. i don't think they are bad characters i think it was just such a treat to fight the bosses in 1 and 3, this one doesn't hold up as well. the best fight in 3 is by far "the end." if you set your memory card 2 weeks into the future and have him die of old age (also amazing) this is one of the best fights in the series. this is the closest i've come to living "the most dangerous game" to date. it was so fun. i thought the introduction of Ocelot was also amazing, and i loved his character throughout both games, but especially 3. i don't mind playing as raiden, i don't want you to think i have a problem with him. i think it was the greatest mindfuck ever that he did that. he's not the reason i don't want to go back and play the game. i just don't think it has the staying power of the others. i know you guys we're quick to defend it, but honestly which games in the series did you prefer over Sons of Liberty? (excluding Vr missions and Acid and all the portable shit)

8 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:55 pm

RadicalDreamers

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would you ever dine on a tree frog?

9 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:51 pm

ThatFuckinGuy

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the gimmicks in three were undeniably great...the whole camo thing to me was like a little bit of western rpg customization and function....but my only problem is the enemies...i like the pain and the end and the fear...i think they are really neat but none of them stuck out to me. I really have no memory of them and i really think its because they arent a big part of the canon. My absolute favorite part of 3 was boss. I really enjoyed her whole deal. The double espianoge angle and the fact that she will always be remembered as a traitor when in reality she was a hero is a really cool angle and i really enjoyed that. Also the Oedipus thing they kinda worked in was a little bit neat for an already odd series. Having said all that, i have to say my favorite in the series is 4. And i say that only because they wrapped up the series and answered questions that ive been trying to predict since playing mgs 1. 4 also looks unbelievable and the gameplay is very tight.

10 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:56 pm

RadicalDreamers

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No fuck face i meant what game did you think was worse than 2. i'm curious. you're right though Boss is the best part of snake eater.

11 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:58 pm

ThatFuckinGuy

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worse? im gonna get some hate for this but 3...i dont know why i just never stuck in my mind like the others...dont get me wrong i really liked the game...but i just dont have any vivid memories from 3 like i do for the others


#underpantsitups

12 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:04 pm

LittlestofAlltheBuddies

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I thought three was the best! i loved the bosses and the whole cold war era. Instead of fighting the same metal gear it was the shagohod.(it is similar but still) i love all of the camos and facepaints and the little videos of you eating tree frogs or healing a bullet wound. All the little things of this game were things that i was looking for. Even the story was amazing. One of my favorite parts if that whole game is when you walk through the river of all the people you killed, and me i was never a sneaking type so killing everything seemed like a great idea

13 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:33 pm

Raspar!

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It's hard to say what is "worse" then MGS2. THey are all so different, and bring a lot of different stuff. I guess if I had to put them in an order. It would probably be MGS2, then MGS1 then 4 then 3.

http://hadokant.forumotion.com

14 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:53 pm

ThatFuckinGuy

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you know what...fuck this....im gonna keep digging this whole

i said earlier that i enjoyed the enemies in this game....i will now retract that shit

i think the reason i didnt like this game as much as the others is because of the enemies...im a huge fan of the canon behind this game...and all these enemies just dont seem to fit. I think they tried selling them of as a sort foxhound or deadcell...which i do appreciate...but they just dont fit the archetype accept for the number of them and the fact that they all have a weird skill set.

the pain is odd. A fucking bee keeper? really...thats a member of an elite tactical unit? jesus...just make a little smoke and this cunt is worthless...i mean really fucking bees.....this is a time in the mgs universe where major nuclear war is a big threat and the guy standing in my way is a bee-keeper that is a little cross. Ill but on a bee hat with a shroud hanging and just shoot him.

the fear is a neat character...but what in the fuck is he all about...hes somekind of exorcist monkey thing. I realize grey fox and ninja raiden are "military fantasy" creatures..but their whole deal is at least explained with things that exist in the mgs universe to make them that way. Raiden in mgs 4 isent even a human anymore. They removed all of his skin and replaced it with some wacky shell and pumped him full of some kooky white blood full of nanomachines..so he at least makes sense in the universe,but the fear? again another enemy that requires a unique approach to defeat but is nothing more than a circus side show. He just dosent fit the universe. Dont get me wrong...i applaud the writers for being original but these guys just dont seem to fit, especially for the era the game takes place in.

the end fuckin rules....he makes perfect sense...an old salt that is the best sniper because hes been at it for fucking ever...should have tryed using this archetype in the other enemies.

ocelot...again loved him. It was fun to see him as a young punk kid that fucked up and got schooled a few times. This was a great thing for anyone that played the other games.

the fury....again fit the soldier archetype that the end did well.

the sorrow....river of bodies was awesome, but he is also very supernatural but then again so is psycho mantis so fuck me....i have a soft spot for mantis because of the clever shit they employed with him. I was always way to busy trying to figure out what the fuck was going on rather than be distracted by the fact that he was an odd character.....plug into port 2 was fuckin genius and still is

finally i get to main bad guy...i think his name was Super Mcbadguyultracommie, or maybe it was Mr. Sadistfagrapistevilelectricguy....either way they could have just called him Adolfski Hitlerski....they made him such a silly ultra bad guy. The electricity thing is just weird. This is 40 or so years before sons of liberty, and fortune in sons of liberty still ahd to use a magnetic field thingy...but meanwhile 40 years ago this cunt just had it runnning all through him...hes just way too easy of a bad guy


scooter is right, the health care and food eating thing was cool...gimmicky but it fit so well with the setting

15 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:09 pm

RadicalDreamers

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i'm surprised 2 is your favorite in the series bill hader. i was not aware. the point i was trying to make was that 2 was my least favorite in the series. i don't think its a bad game, i just think weakest of the bunch. the bee dude and the electric dude do suck in 3, i just think the other bosses made up for it. i still think Kojima is the second coming, and i honestly love all the Metal Gear games that have come out. except Acid. i really wanted to like that but it really really sucks. also Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake for MSX (the game that finally came out in America on the bonus disc for Subsistence) is the hardest fucking thing i've ever played in my whole life. that's the only game i haven't beaten in the series.

16 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:18 pm

ThatFuckinGuy

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in other news....metal gear rising looks awesome.....check youtube for previews...the physics are nuts!

17 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:20 pm

Raspar!

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RadicalDreamers wrote:i'm surprised 2 is your favorite in the series bill hader. i was not aware. the point i was trying to make was that 2 was my least favorite in the series. i don't think its a bad game, i just think weakest of the bunch. the bee dude and the electric dude do suck in 3, i just think the other bosses made up for it. i still think Kojima is the second coming, and i honestly love all the Metal Gear games that have come out. except Acid. i really wanted to like that but it really really sucks. also Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake for MSX (the game that finally came out in America on the bonus disc for Subsistence) is the hardest fucking thing i've ever played in my whole life. that's the only game i haven't beaten in the series.

I was surprised it was my favorite as well, I really had to sit and evaluate each one and think it over. And I agree, its hard to call any of them bad, it just becomes what your favorite is really. I mean, I really like all of them, and 3 has an awesome nay, the best soundtrack of any MGS game. It also captured the 60's amazingly while not really having to show much timestampable stuff.

http://hadokant.forumotion.com

18 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:39 pm

RadicalDreamers

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Do you think love can bloom? even on a battlefield?


for some reason i needed to add this.

19 Re: You Mean....Metal Gear on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:41 pm

LittlestofAlltheBuddies

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my favorite quote form mgs3
"I raised you, and loved you, I've given you weapons, taught you techniques, endowed you with knowledge. There's nothing more for me to give you. All that's left for you to take is my life".

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